It's The Gun Stupid

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Eternum 1
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It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:12 am

I get tired of reading how every headline shooting is the result of insanity, as if the outbreak of insanity is like flu season these days, There has been more than 70 mass killings in the U.S. in the past three decades that I've managed to read about in the news; more than a dozen in the past two years alone; an average of two mass shootings per month for the past five years; 20 children and six adults slaughtered at Sandy Hook; more than 12,000 dead (many say it's likely twice that amount) from guns in 2013 alone, which is an average of 30 every day; upwards of 32,000 gun-related deaths every year; more than 100,000 people shot every year (including non-fatal and suicides) – there is one basic ingredient at work here.........a gun.


It is the ultimate male form of American machismo. Want to get back at your boss, your ex wife, society and the world in general or just have the capability for that contingency; buy a gun.

It's the message that has been hammered into our mass culture since I was a little boy watching shoot em ups on black and white television. Guns give you something to say in almost every scenario and even though the old formula of the white hats and black hats doesn't apply any more; you still need to make a statement that no one can mess with you without consequences. Go ahead make my day you moving targets out there.

So try this out for a scenario; think like other people in the wide world. Imagine some pants drooping gang banger, swaggering redneck cowboy, gold chained wise guy, Clint Arnie Stallone Willis type poser, Stand your ground Floridian or the latest wannabe mass killer. Now take away his gun. What's left? Yup, just another imperfect bozo who is coping in a imperfect world without the final punctuation of death in his repertoire of redress or attention seeking.

Americans say their constitution protects their right to cuddle up to their guns. Too bad their constitution doesn't do so well at protecting them FROM their guns. People often ask me as a person who spends a lot of time in both the US and Canada what's the big difference. The first thing, I say, is the way we look at guns. The other things like respect for the quality of life and the pursuit of happiness in the form of universal health care, just naturally follow that rationale.

Put away your guns and you could be Canadian. Oh the horror. :shock:
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:38 pm

? 2 per month for the past five years? dont shoot me but i dont understand your math.
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

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gordy
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:41 pm

70 in 3 decades = 70 in 360 months = 1 every 5 months approx.
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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gordy
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:43 pm

i think your theory works only if you can magically make everyone have no guns and then start from there. :2cents:
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:20 pm

A return to the ban on military grade weapons would be a good start and limiting the size of clips for other guns. Requiring proper storage of guns at home could save a lot of kids lives too.

Stand your ground laws are poorly disguised passes to kill people that annoy you for some reason or another and they should be repealed.

Open carry laws won't make your society safer but they sure as hell will make other people buy more guns when they see you strutting around with one.

I'm 65 years old and I've never felt the need for a gun, why would I? I do know the violence from them causes more problems then they solve; just like wars do. I've hunted and shot targets and used different sorts when in the military but it's not a fetish to me. Like any other tool I don't need a constitutional right to own a crow bar or carry one in public. I sure as hell don't need a gun to go to the store for a quart of milk and I wouldn't shoot someone because they didn't look like they belonged on my street. Large swaths of your society rationalises these acts to a degree that the rest of the world can't imagine and then you argue minutia instead of looking at the problem.

The problem is some people love their guns far more than is rational or healthy.
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:29 pm

you still didnt explain the math ......lol i dont have a gun but there are some neighborhoods very close to me that if i found myself having to live there i guarantee i would have a gun.
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:45 pm

Why would you have a gun if you lived in those parts of your city? Explain what makes that area different and why, if you could. I lived much of my life in Vancouver, Canada (GVR district population of 2.5 million people) and never felt the need for a gun in any neighborhood.

2008 stats:

http://heedinggodscall.org/content/pfctoolkit-10


http://www.theguardian.com/world/gun-crime+usa


http://www.globalresearch.ca/gun-violen ... ca/5315892

The stats I previously quoted came directly from a US publication and are recent. I will find the article and post a link to that as well. Sorry for not posting the source at the time.
Last edited by Eternum 1 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:50 pm

because i would want to protect myself from other people with guns who are on drugs and looking for things to steal to support their drug habit. this seems obvious so i think you must be baiting me. i did not look at your links.
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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gordy
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:56 pm

most of the shootings are from people who would not register their guns or obey any laws enacted NOW. do you really think all the shootings in chicago over the 4th of july weekend would have been stopped with stricter gun laws???
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:02 pm

No I shop downtown in areas where people sit on the sidewalks and shoot up heroin. I often pass the Insite where addicts have safe access to needles and medical care. I don't feel threatened by them other then their odd begging for "spare change" they don't bother me. The only harassment I and members of my family are ever exposed has been from mentally ill people who are off their meds. We need more hospitals and better treatment for them. Sometimes they get killed by overzealous cops and most of us believe the cops in the past handled these situations with more finesse and less violence.

Bottom line is we don't take any killing casually and would not entertain the idea of open carry or stand your ground with anything other than revulsion and disdain.
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:06 pm

i wouldn't shoot those people either. i gave you an example of how i would defend myself but you refuse to acknowledge that. you have your idealistic view of things. they don't translate into all scenarios. what would you do if your wife or child was potentially mortally threatened and you had the means to eliminate the threat?
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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gordy
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Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:01 am
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:09 pm

i don't even own a gun and probably never will . :thumbsup: :angel:
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

User avatar
Eternum 1
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:16 pm

gordy wrote:most of the shootings are from people who would not register their guns or obey any laws enacted NOW. do you really think all the shootings in chicago over the 4th of july weekend would have been stopped with stricter gun laws???
I've often said that stopping the gun merchants is the way to go. Mexico for example has a horrendous drug gang problem with tens of thousands murdered each year. Most of the guns used in those killings can be traced back to dealers in the US. The same goes for gang killings here in Canada where gun shipments are interdicted almost as often as drugs themselves.

I for one would like to see addicts given drugs by pharmacies until they can live sober. Europe has proven that most addicts quit on their own after about 10 years and they don't cost their governments as much in medical treatment (clean drugs) or incarceration. I don't fear addicts but I have taken some to 12 step treatment and helped them find sponsors to stay sober.

You used to have federal conspiracy laws that went after people at the top of criminal organisations but for some reason your politicians killed the budget for that while focusing on increased jail time low level operators and minorities. Tell me why is crack cocaine more severely punished than holding powdered cocaine except for the identified groups who use one or the other?

By the way we don't take away a offenders voting rights up here either. We even set up polling booths in our prisons. Maybe because voting is a federal responsibility and we don't allow states or provinces to interfere with basic rights.
Last edited by Eternum 1 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by Eternum 1 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:23 pm

gordy wrote:i wouldn't shoot those people either. i gave you an example of how i would defend myself but you refuse to acknowledge that. you have your idealistic view of things. they don't translate into all scenarios. what would you do if your wife or child was potentially mortally threatened and you had the means to eliminate the threat?
I never said 'ban all guns' . Like I said I have hunted and used firearms but decided to get rid of them when I had small children to raise. If my family was threatened with violence I don't know how I'd react. I doubt the Hollywood scenario with me being a hero would play out regardless of the arsenal available. Such scenarios are extremely rare even though we might like the fantasy. Fact is you are far more in danger of being killed by a policeman or a relative in Canada than a criminal.
Last edited by Eternum 1 on Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's The Gun Stupid

Post by gordy » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:25 pm

but they already have the guns now, you have not given me one solution to this problem, this real life problem. also how did we get to crack cocaine. you seem to imply that i fear non-violent drug abusers. nothing could be further from the truth. i am talking about real life scenarios where a threat is being made on your family. do you allow them to be killed or harmed or do you defend yourself. you refuse to answer this. you say allowing drug users access to drugs will allow MOST of them to quit after ten years or so. so what about the ones who dont? effectively you have escalated their demise by supplying them with their drug of choice.
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My Jesus hung out with thieves and sluts and liars, which Jesus do you worship?

---Todd Agnew


Perfection is my enemy
Procrastination is his cohort
Persistence is my sword

---Gordy

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