Workshop: What makes it poetry?

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heinzs
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Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:59 pm

I have permission from the author (from another site) to enter this topic into the workshop for discussion. I hope you all find it useful and interesting and I look forward to your responses.

Thanks to Eric Lee:
Sure, it's a poem. Anything the author calls a poem is a poem...but what makes it "poetry"?

We've all been told, by now (Gee, thanks, Mr. Elliott!) that rhyme and meter aren't what does it. Free-Verse is all the rage, lately. Personally, I urge all poets to learn the forms and to write in rhyme and meter if only for the practice: this fad can't last forever, and besides, it can only improve both your vocabulary and sense of usage to work in structure.

But what DOES make poetry...poetry? What distinguishes a poem from a piece of pretty and evocative prose? Here's my opinion...

Prose is the art of making word-constructions, conveying to the reader a sense of place or of feeling through the use of language.

Poetry is the art of making the language transcend itself, and offering the reader MORE than can be explained in just the meanings of the words and sentences presented. We make use of the sounds and shapes and odd combinations of the words...we use rhythm and tension and contradiction and juxtaposition...we use, even, the visual shape of the poem itself as it flows down the page, to present a whole greater than the sum of its defined parts.

Poetry is, oddly, not as popular as it once was (though you couldn't tell it by the number of Internet poetry forums, could you?) A chart of recent sales of poetic anthologies would make a picture of a really challenging down-hill ski course. Personally, I attribute this to the recent upsurge in technology...we no longer have to hire a band to hear music, we can turn on a radio, and music completes poetry in many ways. Now we buy albums instead of books of rhymes.

So, given that...maybe poetry is still just as popular as ever...we just take it with accompaniment. By far, our biggest exposure to poetic expression comes as lyrics, and that's a real good place to look for the things that make poetry work. For an example of how a line of poetry can offer more than the words actually say, I'd like to present one of my personal favorites...a song performed by Brooks and Dunn called "Texas and Norma Jean". (Don't like Country Music? Well, don't worry about it, we all have our shortcomings. I promise, I won't sing it.)

Texas and Norma Jean


v1
It was a foggy morning, south of San Jose.
We were sittin' in a crowded coffee shop with nothin' left to say.
My cup grew cold and a teardrop rolled down her cheek,
and I brushed it away...
I remember it all, just like Yesterday.

CH--
And I see it now...
I feel it still.
It's a day I can't forget and never will,
and I hear her voice on the winds of Abilene.
She used to call me Texas, and I called her Norma Jean.

v2
I still see her wavin' through the radiator steam.
She was stranded by the roadside on her way to bigger things.
She threw her bags in back, said she liked my hat,
her name was Marilyn Justine...
I fell into her California dream.

CH--
And I see it now...
I feel it still.
It's a day I can't forget and never will,
and I hear her voice on the winds of Abilene.
She used to call me Texas, and I called her Norma Jean.


refrain...
Yeah, we took a lot of detours on our winding way out west...
livin' for the moment, forgettin' all the rest.
The life that she had waitin' and the one I left behind:
now I'm back here, tryin' to sort it out
one fence-post at a time...

v3
In that coffee shop, the road just stopped, and we faced reality...
the place that she was goin' had no place for me...

CH--And I see it now...
I feel it still.
It's a day I can't forget and never will,
and I hear her voice on the winds of Abilene.
She used to call me Texas, and I called her Norma Jean.


Let's take a look at the first line of the second verse...this is truly classic.

"I still see her wavin' through the radiator steam."

In a single, short sentence, we're told that
1) the speaker is looking into memory.
2) the remembered subject character was calling for attention...
3) "through the radiator steam"...that simple prepositional phrase speaks the volumes that so impress me...we can now see an entire scene, from the smallest of descriptives...a woman, hood of her car up, steam pouring from an overheated radiator (so it's obviously a hot and therefore very bright day)...this is a magnificent example of poetic description!

The rest of the song is good stuff in this light, but that one line is one of the finest examples of short-and-sweet scene setting that I have ever seen. The next line, "She was stranded by the roadside on her way to bigger things...." offers us the perfect and very concise image of a woman travelling with no more certain destination than "a bright future".

"She threw her bags in back, said she liked my hat, "...in those few words we are told that the speaker not only stopped to help, and offered a ride, and that she accepted, but we are very clearly told (without being told at all) that the speaker is a cowboy in a pick-up.

I'm not going to do a full "line-by-line", I think that you are all ready to see what I'm talking about, and I'd like it a lot if some of you were to pick a single line from this (or another) song, and show me all the things that you can find yourself realizing from a very few words...but there's one more line here that, to me, spoke literal volumes of descriptive...maybe it's just my heritage and upbringing...check out these very sparce words, and all the things conveyed in them...

"now I'm back here, tryin' to sort it out
one fence-post at a time..."

Extra points for the student who gives me all of the things I see in this brief and terribly simple description...and that's all for this week's lesson on what makes poetry. In a nutshell...it's the ability to put it---

---in a nutshell.Get what you can from this...I hope you find it helpful.
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bags123
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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by bags123 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:02 pm

I would largely agree with the author. Excellent.
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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:51 pm

It was supposed to be a "workshop"... not a lecture... lol.

It's ok... no one participated on the other site either.


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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by bags123 » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:01 pm

Oh,..... well then. Although I tend to prefer writing in meter,..... and find rhyme sublime usually,.... I confess to reading the occasional free verse that has really impressed me with it's depth and descriptive prowess. It's kind of like music I guess.
I can appreciate the artistry of classical music,.... but I rarely listen to it myself. I prefer more popular forms of music personally. But hey,...... that's just me. I bet Beethoven was a hoot in real life. I'm just more of a Rolling Stones kind of guy when it comes right down to it. Besides,.... I never really liked Shakespear either. :computer:
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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by jupe » Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:54 pm

First, I enjoy reading and writing free verse poetry. Lately I have dabbled in classic forms, and am enjoying it. I find it helps me think words and arrangements in my poems

The song to me seems metered. The line, one fence post at a time, is someone trying to figure out what went wrong, how to move forward. Obviously, it's not the fence posts he is counting or looking at, but mistakes, perhaps, that led to where he is now. :book:

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:09 pm

By the way, there is no "wrong" interpretation here. What is desired is a cross section of views on the issue using the given example(s).

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by Twaddle » Sat May 16, 2009 11:52 pm

Many days of chasing my neighbor and friends FFA project steers, has taught me a thing or too about fenceposts. It is at the fencepost that you find the problem, and where you will innevitably have to fix it. The fence post, though small and seemingly fragile, is the strength of the system, that keeps it all together.

I like all forms of poetry, as well as lyrics in music. I write both poetry and music, and for the most part, don't draw a huge distinction between them.

Great topic!
One loses interest
in that
which bears no mystery,
And holds no promise...

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Sun May 17, 2009 1:13 pm

Thanks Tim. The fellow who posed this project is a remarkable man whom I admire dearly for his astuteness and ability to communicate through words, poetry and otherwise. I appreciate your participation in this discussion.

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by shawn2005 » Sun May 17, 2009 1:28 pm

poetry is target audience related too. something someone else goes nuts over may be out of the experience of another group to understand or have it resonate within them. people write it for different reasons . some want to make money, some want to create something, some fall in between. it's a release and taking in of something or another for whoever is reading or writing it.

despite my insane behavior in another topic about grammar. i do respect the art and craftsmanship of it and doing something well . regardless of your experience level , the main thing is to always make sure it still has a living soul somewhere in it. the more you involve yourself in it the more you will learn the tricks of the trade . well most people, unless you're like me and tend to be on the slow or lazy side.

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Sun May 17, 2009 1:41 pm

lol thanks Shawn. I've never found you to be slow, and we are all lazy to one degree or other. Yes, poetry is inarguably "alive", however I am always amazed when it is capable of overcoming the "intended audience" barrier and becoming more of a "universal" entity.

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by soular » Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:57 pm

Poetry is the art of making the language transcend itself, and offering the reader MORE than can be explained in just the meanings of the words and sentences presented.
Whatever it is, however it is, whenever it is, wherever it is - Here. Nowhere. Now. Here.
Last edited by soular on Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:50 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by MJPease » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:55 pm

Hello, This was a real experience for Michael come lately. A day late and a dollar short for sure. Norma Jean or Miss Monroe is a bountiful subject no doubt. For Brooks and Dunn or Elton John Candle In The Wind. Inspiration is all we need and the words flow easily. Take Care
Take me back, so far back, adjust this fate. Afeared lately of pen, in abscence of light. The fear I might stumble upon a plagiarized soul. Wipe this dark slate clean, regain my thought. Add the words that rekindle my depth of soul.

From: Summers Discontent 7-24-02

Sincerely

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by Serenem » Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:29 am

heinzs wrote:Thanks Tim. The fellow who posed this project is a remarkable man whom I admire dearly for his astuteness and ability to communicate through words, poetry and otherwise. I appreciate your participation in this discussion.

:thumbsup:
Ah, heinzs, I agree with you totally! Eric is a dear poet friend of mine from way back and there are none more astute than he, especially with the written word, though certainly with the 'otherwise'.

Serenem~Melinda

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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by heinzs » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:33 pm

Thanks Seiichi, Michael and Melinda for your responses. I am pleased with the broadness of the replies. Eric still posts periodically on Allpoetry.com. This piece was taken from the Poetry Factory, Janmew's website.
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Re: Workshop: What makes it poetry?

Post by totsakanth » Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:14 pm

OK for me writing was never 'art' or 'culture' it was something I once had to do virtually under duress - and no, I'm not talking about school.

Now there's always some debate about what 'poetry' is and isn't. Is it the highly disciplined and ultimately beautiful series of words we call a sonnet? Is it a Pindaric ode? Is it ''free verse' or is it just a rambling stream of consciousness? Or is it, really anything other than what it is. I'd say the writer can call the work anything that seems appropriate ( I use the word 'drivel a lot - but then I'm a dumb Aussie)

Still though, the author has a very valid point. 'Poetry' of whatever flavour is usually rooted in emotional overload, and emotional overload can drive all sense out of whatever you're trying to say.

The formalised structures of classical poetry serve pretty much as disc brakes on the emotions. A classical structure can turn an insane babble into a work of art just by forcing the writer to think and not just to drivel.

Therefore it is my belief that anyone pretending to poetry should have at least a working knowledge of the classical forms before venturing into the realms of free verse. For the sake of sanity.

There's a story behind all this which I won't be telling anyone, but trust me - I know whereof I speak!

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